Oil consumption

pilira · 12th March 2005, 17:52

Hi everybody.
Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be?
I have driven exactly 20000km with my car and today i got an alarme for oil.
I checked it and it was still in tolerance but lowest level.
I never had a car in which i had to refill oil inbetween the services. I am surprised.
How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel?
The car is not parked on a hill or similar.
My c2 doesnt know these problems.
Any idea?
greetings
pilira

on4ajg · 12th March 2005, 20:06

Hallo,

Between 0-20000 km I had to fill up about 0.45 L.
Between 20000-40000 km I filled up about 1.25 L.
And now between 40000-51500 km I filled already 0.55 L.

Seems normal to me.
The first oil was the best ( original Selenia Diesel 1/2 synth), the second was Mobil 10W40 1/2 synth. and now I'm using Exxon 10W40 1/2 synth.

Greetings,

Erwin.

poggy · 12th March 2005, 20:51

Haven't used any oil in 26,000 km.

Uwe_rossi · 13th March 2005, 10:45

THE EV2 is my first Diesel wich need not to be refilled with oil.

Former TDI uses 0,5 Ltr. 10.000 km

Alex69 · 13th March 2005, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilira

Hi everybody.
Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be?
I have driven exactly 20000km with my car and today i got an alarme for oil.
I checked it and it was still in tolerance but lowest level.
I never had a car in which i had to refill oil inbetween the services. I am surprised.
How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel?
The car is not parked on a hill or similar.
My c2 doesnt know these problems.
Any idea?
greetings
pilira

Hello Pilira
We have now 24000 km and we used 0,25l oil till the first service.
I know from our old car(Alhambra) oiluse till 1,0l/1000km could be normal but i never used this in 130000km normal i need 0,5l in 20000km.
The sensor for the oillevel in the Ev2 is verry good, but i think one liter in 20000km is no problem.
greetings from here
Alex69

paraglider · 13th March 2005, 14:11

No oil refill from beginning to 21.000 km now :-)

jof · 13th March 2005, 20:13

...think about what oil does into the engine (reduce friction, cooling, lubrication, prevent corrosion, collect contamination out of the engine, etc.), where in the engine it works and how it works, you will see that when a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process.

So actually it is good when an engine is consuming oil, and there is something "wrong" when the oil level stays at the same level or even increases, which means that there is "something else" in the oil (mostly gasoline), which is not good for the engine at all.

In the past years the fabrication tolerances of engine parts have been lowered a lot, so oil consumption has become less compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Today I would consider up to 1 Liter every 1.000 km as most tolerable oil consumption, and 0.1 to 0.25 Liters every 1.000 km (which means 1 to 2.5 Liters every 10.000 km) as quite normal, less than that as low oil consumption.

Of course oil consumption varies from engine to engine, and also the driving habits (or towing a trailer) and the climate have influence.

Checking the oil level regularly using the level stick in the engine compartment helps to find out yout engines "normal" rate of oil consumption. And when suddenly your oil consumption differs a lot from what you experienced before (like you usually have 0.2 Ltrs/1000 km and suddenly your engine uses 1 Liter/1000 km - or the other wax round) this would be an evidence that something is wrong (worn piston rings, valve problems, etc.)

Mechanics also say that it takes some thousands of km until an engine reaches its "normal" oil consumption level, so don't take the new engine as a reference.

How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel?

When driving only a few miles several times, especially in wintertime, and the engine (oil) does not get its best temperature, you will have more more foreign substances (mostly gasoline) in your engine oil, thus the oil level is higher. After a longer Autobahn-trip those foreign substances burn or evaporate. When you check your engine oil then you will have a lower oil level than before (but it is the correct oil level then).

Ans also remember that when you check your oil "too early" after you stopped your engine, not all the oil has trickled back into the oil pan.

From my point of view the "most correct" oil level you get about 1/2...1 hour after a longer Autobahn-trip (when the oil became quite hot for a longer time).

Any time you have to refill oil, you do somewhat "refresh" your oil, especially when you consider the total amount of oil in the engine (I don't even know how much it is, in the different EV2-engines - somewhat around 4...5 Litres I guess).

So, pilira, I would not consider it a "problem" when you have to refill after 20.000 km, I would rather say that everything works all right

Grüße, Jörg

bombus · 13th March 2005, 23:59

Thanx Jörg for the comprehensive explanation!

I have learnt much from it

, but I would like to add some points:

When an engine is in a good condition, the "oil retaining" rings wipe the thin film almost entirely, so consumption should be minimal.
The main foreign substances in "old" oil are combustion products (soot) and abrasion products (microscopic steel particles), but their volume is smaller then the burnt oil so it should not increase the oil volume. excess of oil is usually due to overfilling. (or coolant leaking because of head gasket problems )
As Jörg indicated, short trips in cold weather lead to underestimated oil level.
One major reason for this is that if the engine does not work enough time and is still cold, the oil remains very viscous so after a short and cold trip, a significant fraction of the oil is sticked to most inner surfaces of the engine.
Only after a long stop, or if the oil reached high temperature, most of it accumulates back in the crater and a reliable measurement can be done.
I also agree with Jörg about the normal oil consumption.
1 kg (In Israel we measure engine oil in kg...) per 1000 km is considered upper normal limit, but actual consumption should be much lower.
In my past 2 Mitsubishis, which I drove together for 200k km, the oil level after 15000 km (service interval) was always at the lower limit. this means 1kg per 15k km.
Considering this, the consumption you report is very reasonable!

Best regards

Bombus

Axel Rauch · 14th March 2005, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilira

Hi everybody.
Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be?
I have driven exactly 20000km with my car and today i got an alarme for oil.
I checked it and it was still in tolerance but lowest level.
I never had a car in which i had to refill oil inbetween the services. I am surprised.
How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel?
The car is not parked on a hill or similar.
My c2 doesnt know these problems.
Any idea?
greetings
pilira

Hi pilira

Exactly the same on my old C8. At round about 20.000 km I need to refill oil.

Axel

qzdcg8 · 14th March 2005, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilira

Hi everybody.
Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be?
I have driven exactly 20000km with my car and today i got an alarme for oil.
I checked it and it was still in tolerance but lowest level.
I never had a car in which i had to refill oil inbetween the services. I am surprised.
How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel?
The car is not parked on a hill or similar.
My c2 doesnt know these problems.
Any idea?
greetings
pilira

I got the warning light after 10000mi / 16000km - when I checked I found the same, in tolerance but very very close to the low level mark - you must make sure you put the right oil in though.

Odysseos · 14th March 2005, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilira

Hi everybody.
Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be?
...

Hi,
we drove almost 40.000 km so far, mostly on motorways.
I think we have consumed 1 kg oil per 20.000 km.
We never reached the very bottom limit before service, so we never refilled, just had the whole oil replaced.

pilira · 15th March 2005, 00:05

Hi, thanx for your answers.
I dont consider this consumption as a problem. I am just not used to it. As i said, none of my former cars had an measurable oil consumption (except for my first three very old cars). Maybe its because no car had such a long service intervall. I always had to go to service after 10000 - 15000 km.
Regarding this it really seems to be normal.
greetings
pilira

tjskd · 19th March 2005, 23:06

mmmm,mmmhh

What going on with the oil in this days...

Today after (while) starting my car shows me the oil level _ _ _ _ _ .

Never had this before first service. From okt. 2003 - 2004 the car needs no oil (the indicator shows always o o o o o . (13.000 km).

Now after 4.000 km the level is to low?

Whats going on there? Do they fill in a bad oil, or simply not enough?

Up to now no leak to see under the car.

I will go to the garage on monday...

Fred · 20th March 2005, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjskd

mmmm,mmmhh

What going on with the oil in this days...

Today after (while) starting my car shows me the oil level _ _ _ _ _ .

Never had this before first service. From okt. 2003 - 2004 the car needs no oil (the indicator shows always o o o o o . (13.000 km).

Now after 4.000 km the level is to low?

Whats going on there? Do they fill in a bad oil, or simply not enough?

Up to now no leak to see under the car.

I will go to the garage on monday...

I think probably they fill in not enough. I had the same situation years ago at my old car. But at that time I was the blowzier

who fill in not enoug!

Please let us know what the technican say on monday.

Uwe_rossi · 20th March 2005, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjskd

mmmm,mmmhh

What going on with the oil in this days...

Today after (while) starting my car shows me the oil level _ _ _ _ _ .

..

just check the oil in the traditionell way and you will see you have a bit to much oil in.
I checked your level last night.

maybe only half an cup to much.

12th March 2005, 17:52	#1 (permalink)
pilira Guru Join Date: 26 Nov 2003 Location: bei Frankfurt / M. Age: 39 Posts: 468 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Car: C8 2,0 SX Engine: 2.0 Petrol Country of origin:	Oil consumption Hi everybody. Can anyone tell me how high the oil consumpzion should be? I have driven exactly 20000km with my car and today i got an alarme for oil. I checked it and it was still in tolerance but lowest level. I never had a car in which i had to refill oil inbetween the services. I am surprised. How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel? The car is not parked on a hill or similar. My c2 doesnt know these problems. Any idea? greetings pilira
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12th March 2005, 20:06	#2 (permalink)
on4ajg Master Join Date: 14 Jul 2003 Location: Sint Truiden (prov. Limburg) - Belgium Age: 50 Posts: 92 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Car: Lancia Phedra 2.0 JTD Country of origin:	Hallo, Between 0-20000 km I had to fill up about 0.45 L. Between 20000-40000 km I filled up about 1.25 L. And now between 40000-51500 km I filled already 0.55 L. Seems normal to me. The first oil was the best ( original Selenia Diesel 1/2 synth), the second was Mobil 10W40 1/2 synth. and now I'm using Exxon 10W40 1/2 synth. Greetings, Erwin.
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12th March 2005, 20:51	#3 (permalink)
poggy Guru Join Date: 20 Jan 2004 Location: Southampton Age: 39 Posts: 493 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Car: Fiat Ulysse Eleganza 2.0 16V Auto Country of origin:	Haven't used any oil in 26,000 km.
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13th March 2005, 10:45	#4 (permalink)
Uwe_rossi EV2 MacGyver Join Date: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Bürstadt near Mannheim / Hessen Age: 41 Posts: 6,660 Images: 26 Thanks: 2 Thanked 24 Times in 18 Posts Car: Fiat Ulysse 2.2 JTD/HDI Emotion Engine: 2.2 HDI/JTD Country of origin:	THE EV2 is my first Diesel wich need not to be refilled with oil. Former TDI uses 0,5 Ltr. 10.000 km __________________ Best regards uwe_rossi FIAT Ulysse 2.2 JTD/HDI Emotion Ein Abend, an dem sich alle Anwesenden völlig einig sind, ist ein verlorener Abend. Before posting, try the search function first.
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13th March 2005, 14:11	#6 (permalink)
paraglider Guru Join Date: 12 May 2004 Location: Purkersdorf near Vienna / Austria Age: 48 Posts: 450 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Car: Phedra Emblema 2,2 jtd, 6 seats, xenon, ... Engine: 2.2 HDI/JTD Country of origin:	No oil refill from beginning to 21.000 km now :-) __________________ Regards, Paraglider
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13th March 2005, 20:13	#7 (permalink)
jof Guru Join Date: 26 Oct 2004 Location: Darmstadt Age: 41 Posts: 372 Images: 13 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts Car: C8 Tendance Engine: 2.0 Petrol Automatic Country of origin:	When you... ...think about what oil does into the engine (reduce friction, cooling, lubrication, prevent corrosion, collect contamination out of the engine, etc.), where in the engine it works and how it works, you will see that when a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. So actually it is good when an engine is consuming oil, and there is something "wrong" when the oil level stays at the same level or even increases, which means that there is "something else" in the oil (mostly gasoline), which is not good for the engine at all. In the past years the fabrication tolerances of engine parts have been lowered a lot, so oil consumption has become less compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Today I would consider up to 1 Liter every 1.000 km as most tolerable oil consumption, and 0.1 to 0.25 Liters every 1.000 km (which means 1 to 2.5 Liters every 10.000 km) as quite normal, less than that as low oil consumption. Of course oil consumption varies from engine to engine, and also the driving habits (or towing a trailer) and the climate have influence. Checking the oil level regularly using the level stick in the engine compartment helps to find out yout engines "normal" rate of oil consumption. And when suddenly your oil consumption differs a lot from what you experienced before (like you usually have 0.2 Ltrs/1000 km and suddenly your engine uses 1 Liter/1000 km - or the other wax round) this would be an evidence that something is wrong (worn piston rings, valve problems, etc.) Mechanics also say that it takes some thousands of km until an engine reaches its "normal" oil consumption level, so don't take the new engine as a reference. How can it be that the oil indication shows everytime another oillevel? When driving only a few miles several times, especially in wintertime, and the engine (oil) does not get its best temperature, you will have more more foreign substances (mostly gasoline) in your engine oil, thus the oil level is higher. After a longer Autobahn-trip those foreign substances burn or evaporate. When you check your engine oil then you will have a lower oil level than before (but it is the correct oil level then). Ans also remember that when you check your oil "too early" after you stopped your engine, not all the oil has trickled back into the oil pan. From my point of view the "most correct" oil level you get about 1/2...1 hour after a longer Autobahn-trip (when the oil became quite hot for a longer time). Any time you have to refill oil, you do somewhat "refresh" your oil, especially when you consider the total amount of oil in the engine (I don't even know how much it is, in the different EV2-engines - somewhat around 4...5 Litres I guess). So, pilira, I would not consider it a "problem" when you have to refill after 20.000 km, I would rather say that everything works all right Grüße, Jörg
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13th March 2005, 23:59	#8 (permalink)
bombus Majesty Join Date: 31 Oct 2004 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Age: 45 Posts: 1,947 Images: 28 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Car: auto 2.0 JTD Ulysse Engine: 2.0 HDI/JTD Automatic Country of origin:	Thanx Jörg for the comprehensive explanation! I have learnt much from it , but I would like to add some points: When an engine is in a good condition, the "oil retaining" rings wipe the thin film almost entirely, so consumption should be minimal. The main foreign substances in "old" oil are combustion products (soot) and abrasion products (microscopic steel particles), but their volume is smaller then the burnt oil so it should not increase the oil volume. excess of oil is usually due to overfilling. (or coolant leaking because of head gasket problems ) As Jörg indicated, short trips in cold weather lead to underestimated oil level. One major reason for this is that if the engine does not work enough time and is still cold, the oil remains very viscous so after a short and cold trip, a significant fraction of the oil is sticked to most inner surfaces of the engine. Only after a long stop, or if the oil reached high temperature, most of it accumulates back in the crater and a reliable measurement can be done. I also agree with Jörg about the normal oil consumption. 1 kg (In Israel we measure engine oil in kg...) per 1000 km is considered upper normal limit, but actual consumption should be much lower. In my past 2 Mitsubishis, which I drove together for 200k km, the oil level after 15000 km (service interval) was always at the lower limit. this means 1kg per 15k km. Considering this, the consumption you report is very reasonable! Best regards Bombus Last edited by bombus; 14th March 2005 at 00:02.
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15th March 2005, 00:05	#12 (permalink)
pilira Guru Join Date: 26 Nov 2003 Location: bei Frankfurt / M. Age: 39 Posts: 468 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Car: C8 2,0 SX Engine: 2.0 Petrol Country of origin:	Hi, thanx for your answers. I dont consider this consumption as a problem. I am just not used to it. As i said, none of my former cars had an measurable oil consumption (except for my first three very old cars). Maybe its because no car had such a long service intervall. I always had to go to service after 10000 - 15000 km. Regarding this it really seems to be normal. greetings pilira
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19th March 2005, 23:06	#13 (permalink)
tjskd EV2 annual meeting king Join Date: 30 Jun 2003 Location: Essen / Ruhr District Area / NRW Age: 43 Posts: 3,584 Images: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Car: Lancia Phedra 2.2 jtd (170 hp) Platino Engine: 2.2 HDI/JTD Automatic Country of origin:	mmmm,mmmhh What going on with the oil in this days... Today after (while) starting my car shows me the oil level _ _ _ _ _ . Never had this before first service. From okt. 2003 - 2004 the car needs no oil (the indicator shows always o o o o o . (13.000 km). Now after 4.000 km the level is to low? Whats going on there? Do they fill in a bad oil, or simply not enough? Up to now no leak to see under the car. I will go to the garage on monday... __________________ Greetings tjskd P.S. Man muss sein Glück nut begreifen können! 20.03.2003 - 15.08.2003 Phedra Executive, e-doors, Xenon, Leather, etc gewandelt / returned 28.10.2003 - 25.4.2008 Phedra Executive, e-doors, Xenon, Leather, etc Seit/since 25.04.2008 Phedra Platinum 170 hp automatic, leather bi- colour, RT4, 7 seater, e-doors, Xenon, Standalone heater Webasto T91 etc,
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