Cam Belt Replacement

[Peter1]

OK I understand Bor - but on the other hand: when the pbl is well known in, for example, France (where a lot of 807's and C8's will be sold), at least you should assume that PSA France would inform the other countries, too.

You are driving an Ulysse - there I could understand eventually that this "news" was seeping through a little slower.

Let's hope for paulmc everything turns out for him in a good way....

It is a very annoying experience, having a snapped cam belt in the middle of the road, not being in the possibility to move your car anywhere anymore - all at a sudden it is completely "dead".

I was very lucky oktober '07 I just left the highway when my belt snapped, on a small local road with almost no traffic....

I was directly thinking about a snapped belt - all the symptoms where there....

[FuliHdi]

Originally Posted by Peter1

OK I understand Bor - but on the other hand: when the pbl is well known in, for example, France (where a lot of 807's and C8's will be sold), at least you should assume that PSA France would inform the other countries, too. ...It is a very annoying experience, having a snapped cam belt in the middle of the road ...

Yes, I fully agree that PSA SHOULD inform other countries, but I have just explained that this was obviously not done . I can hardly imagine the terrible situation when your car is unmovable on a higway or on a local curvy (kurvenreiche?) road where the (young) local drivers often tend to push the speed far beyond the needed safety stop limits.
Sure we hope for a positive outcome for paulmc!

[paulmc]

Still waiting and no news.When i wne tin Monday last they said tha they are still talking to Citroen Ireland. That have taken back the C4 and given me a Grand Scenic!. Again they ask me to be patient. Problem now is my insurance company will not extend temporary cover for more than 6 weeks without letter from Citroen explaning the problem.
Again the garage have said that they are on my side but i am getting a little impatient.
I mentioned that i may get a solicitor and write to them and or Citroen Ireland.

I think maybe PSA are not telling some countries of these problems

[FuliHdi]

Originally Posted by paulmc

I think maybe PSA are not telling some countries of these problems

I think the same!
Maybe you really ought to consult a lawyer, because from my point of view it's a very simple situation: in the owner's handbook PSA states the cam belt replacement interval as 160.000 km or 5 years (whichever comes first) ....
Good luck in any case!

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by FuliHdi

... it's a very simple situation: in the owner's handbook PSA states the cam belt replacement interval as 160.000 km or 5 years (whichever comes first) ....

Absolutely!

[Barratana]

Originally Posted by FuliHdi

Hi,
I am not sure that this this problem is forwarded to all EV2 dealers. When having my cam belt raplaced this summer I asked a renown Fiat garage about it, they checked their notice database and found nothing, even could not find any part nuber for any "water-collecting-tray" I was asking for (I am sure they would try to sell me one if they could). When I bought this via the Peugeot part number (thanks to Peter) and handed it over, they tried to find the corresponding Fiat part, but no match was found. They also stated that they never heard of this problem hapening to Ulysse or Phedra (which they service) or never had such a case. I suppose one has to consider the "market share" - where here in Slovenia you find much more C8 & 807 vehicles than Phedras & Ulysses, plus the all over quantities are small because of the small market .... I do not know about Ireland, but maybe the C8 is not a very common car there and not every garage is aware of the problem?
Rgds Bor

Hi,

I wonder if the Phedras design without knowing prevents this problem....
The fact is that due to the disign diferences ( front and rear diferent comparing with Peugeot and Citroen ), maybe Phedra doesn´t have the same problem, just acidently......

Can someone check if this is possible? Or is the same problem ?

Regards
RM

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by Barratana

Hi,

I wonder if the Phedras design without knowing prevents this problem....
The fact is that due to the disign diferences ( front and rear diferent comparing with Peugeot and Citroen ), maybe Phedra doesn´t have the same problem, just acidently......

Can someone check if this is possible? Or is the same problem ?

Regards
RM

All EV2 2.0 HDi 107/109/110hp and 2.2HDi 128hp engines have the same positioning of items under the bonnet, so yes unfortunately also the Phedra is affected by this pbl.
.

[Barratana]

Ok,

Tomorow I´ll take care of it
I don´t want my new used Phedra to die from timing belt desease!

I just don´t know if the part number from peugeot includes the rubber tubes or it´s just the plastic cover!


Regards
RM

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by Barratana

Ok,

Tomorow I´ll take care of it
I don´t want my new used Phedra to die from timing belt desease!

I just don´t know if the part number from peugeot includes the rubber tubes or it´s just the plastic cover!


Regards
RM

Rubber tubes? I think you looked to my pictures of the current "from factory" solution on my new P807 - the plastic "cover" (water collecting tray) comes in one piece without tubings.

Pictures (attached pdf's) and the correct part number of this tray you can find at the almost end of this thread:
http://www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurova...on-belt-2.html

[Barratana]

Originally Posted by Peter1

Rubber tubes? I think you looked to my pictures of the current "from factory" solution on my new P807 - the plastic "cover" (water collecting tray) comes in one piece without tubings.

Pictures (attached pdf's) and the correct part number of this tray you can find at the almost end of this thread:
http://www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurova...on-belt-2.html

You are correct! I´ve seen the black and white picture and assumed it was needed

Thanks once again!

Tomorow I´ll get it

Thanks Peter1 !

[tyke]

My advice, for what it's worth is to get the belts changed early, 72000 miles and before 5 years. If the belt snaps on a car that's out of warranty I suggest breaking it for spares or flogging it as is, taking the money and running (fast!). This may sound cynical but here are some numbers for you all.

Reconditioned engine £2079
Injectors (x4 @ £125 +vat each) £575
Clutch (not absolutely needed but ...) £136
Labour (cheap @ £35/hr) £1800
Sundries (seals/bolts/oil/filters etc) £241
Total (if my maths are right) £4831

This is before adding in other costs - hire/borrow alternative transport, and the time and stress. I probably didn't help things as I didn't want to just throw the garage a blank cheque, so most of what was bought I sourced and paid for myself, but the above is possibly as cheap as it can be done without doing it all yourself, and remember that the engine needs to come out from underneath not from the top so some serious garage equipment is needed.

A couple of other numbers to add into the mix.

A genuine Fiat engine was "special order" so I didn't persue that avenue, but Peugeot wanted £5995 +vat!
Labour at my local Fiat dealer is £65/hr, nearly double what I paid.

And finally, I looked at replacing the car when I finally got it back and was offered just £3450 for it.

So, the moral of this, as I said when I started, is to pay up the £2-300 for replacing the belts and get them done in good time, alternatively prepare for a very expensive lesson.

By the way... anyone interested in a 2003 Fiat Ulysse Eleganza, 60k miles, new clutch and Recon engine fitted 500 miles ago?

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by tyke

My advice, for what it's worth is to get the belts changed early, 72000 miles and before 5 years.

...

So, the moral of this, as I said when I started, is to pay up the £2-300 for replacing the belts and get them done in good time, alternatively prepare for a very expensive lesson.

Sad story - thanks for sharing this with us!

72000 miles equal 116.000km - as told the cam belt on my previous C8 snapped at 117.000km - I even would recommend max. 100.000km or 62.000 miles / 4 years... specially when the water collecting tray wasn't placed already on your car.

I think on my new P807, although where for the 2.0HDi 136hp FAP 240.000km (or 180.000km in "heavy circumstances" ) is specified in the service book, and although there is water protection mounted "from factory", I'll get the cam belt replaced @ 100.000km.

Take care: for the 2.0HDi 120hp without FAP, the indication is still 160.000km (or 120.000km in "heavy circumstances")... (appearently the FAP is making a difference here, regarding the load forces on the belt ).

At that moment (will probably be summer 2010) I'll ask price at my current Peug. dealer, but also at my previous Cit. dealer, because of the good price (300€ incl. work, (OK excl. water pump which was still good)) experienced there.

Best regards,
Peter

[paulmc]

Story contiinues.

Decide to trade the car in its present state. My Citroen Dealer has offered me an 05 Vectra 1.9DCI as a straight exchange.

I dont have the luxury of going through solicitors etc.

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by paulmc

Story contiinues.

Decide to trade the car in its present state. My Citroen Dealer has offered me an 05 Vectra 1.9DCI as a straight exchange.

I dont have the luxury of going through solicitors etc.

I'm sorry for you it has to end this way...

The Vectra 1.9 CDTI engine is a very good one (originally a Fiat / Alfa jtd engine) used in Opel, Saab, even some Chevrolets (and of course in Fiat, Alfa).

Hopefully and probably you'll be more lucky with that car.

[ArgieBee2]

Almost 8 weeks after the cambelt snapped, I have got my (2005/62k miles/112k km) Ulysse back.

Fortunately, Fiat paid for the engine replacement (my thanks to Palmers, Watford for convincing them and all the work on the car) but I still had to pay for the cambelt replacement and a few other things. So it has been painful but not as bad as it could have been.

There have been sufficient complaints to VOSA and they have asked Fiat to investigate the premature cambelt failure. No doubt macscouse's (scouseart@aol.co.uk) campaign helped.

There seems to be a little momentum building up on the uk Citroen owners club forum so maybe VOSA will be in contact with Citroen as well (if they haven't already), and maybe the uk consumer programme Watchdog would like another go at Citroen after the Clio bonnets last year.

Everytime I look there seem to be more people with ev2s on various forums with the cambelt snapping prematurely. Searching for "c8 courroie" turned up quite a few in French forums like Forum automobile Forum-Auto.com with people threatening to take Citroen or Peugeot to court. Does anyone know there were any successes?

P.S. Thanks to Peter1 for all the useful information about the problem.