Cam Belt Replacement

[CEPSUDIAN]

My Ulysse 2.0JTD is coming up to 4 year old and 80,000 kms. My Fiat dealer says that this is Fiat's recommended interval for replacing the cam belt. I have read elsewhere that it is 120,000kms. What is right. Whilst I don't want to run the risk of a broken cam belt I don't want to have to pay unnecessarily for this work either.

Thanks,

ian

[Frank AM]

Ian, already drove my Ulysse for more then 130.000 km, no change of the belt so far.

Cheers,
Frank AM

[aroone]

Originally Posted by Frank AM

Ian, already drove my Ulysse for more then 130.000 km, no change of the belt so far.

Cheers,
Frank AM

I cant remember where I heard it, but it sounded like "cambelt must be exchanged after 120kkm or 4 years whichever comes first". On the other hand, in users manual it is said, that "a dealer makes a decision" when this replacement should be performed.

Greetings from sunny Lausanne
Arunas

[CEPSUDIAN]

Originally Posted by Frank AM

Ian, already drove my Ulysse for more then 130.000 km, no change of the belt so far.

Cheers,
Frank AM

Well in one way that's reassuring but in another it doesn't really answer the question :-) Also your car is less than tree years old, mine is coming up to four.


Ian

[CEPSUDIAN]

Originally Posted by aroone

I cant remember where I heard it, but it sounded like "cambelt must be exchanged after 120kkm or 4 years whichever comes first". On the other hand, in users manual it is said, that "a dealer makes a decision" when this replacement should be performed.

Greetings from sunny Lausanne
Arunas

Thank you for your reply. I don't think the dealer necessarily has an unbiased opinion on how I should spend my money!

Ian

[macscouse]

My cam belt snapped at 72000 miles ( 96000K ) although Fiat recommend changing at 96000 miles.
The repair bill is around £12000 ... more than the car is worth !!
There is a manufacturing fault that both Citroen and Peugeot have acknowledged by developing a tray to collect water that gathers around the cam belt and corrodes it causing premeature failure.
I have taken Fiat to Court over this and would request anyone who has had a similar problem to get in touch with me at scouseart@aol.co.uk
To be on the safe side , change the belt before the warranty expires or as soon as possible after ... should cost @ £200 but better that £12000 ... right !!
Cheers,
Pete

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by macscouse

My cam belt snapped at 72000 miles ( 96000K ) although Fiat recommend changing at 96000 miles.
The repair bill is around £12000 ... more than the car is worth !!
There is a manufacturing fault that both Citroen and Peugeot have acknowledged by developing a tray to collect water that gathers around the cam belt and corrodes it causing premeature failure.
I have taken Fiat to Court over this and would request anyone who has had a similar problem to get in touch with me at scouseart@aol.co.uk
To be on the safe side , change the belt before the warranty expires or as soon as possible after ... should cost @ £200 but better that £12000 ... right !!
Cheers,
Pete

Mine (2nd C8) snapped at 117.000km, and although the car was 5 months out of warranty, I 've got the motor damage repaired under warranty and only payed 300€ for new belts, tensioner rollers, and the work to replace these parts.
Also the water collecting tray was placed at that moment. Car was for one week in the garage, and they had big trouble with removing the injectors (they corrode and almost can't be removed anymore): one of the four got broken during the removal (replaced under warranty, too).

Strongest recommendation is changing the cam belt at max. 100.000km on the 'old' 2.0HDi 109 (107-110, ...) hp and 2.2HDi 128hp versions.
Or don't wait for 5 years when you don't drive that much.

[pizso]

Well, I still have some silly question about the water protection and the cambelt... Sorry for that...

What kind of water is getting into the cambelt compartment? Rain, condensation? And why only in that very place (right over the cambelt position)? Or it is all over, are any other parts affected? And anyway the cambelt has a protective cover around itself, so it seems that is not enough...

Thanks, just wondering...

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by pizso

Well, I still have some silly question about the water protection and the cambelt... Sorry for that...

What kind of water is getting into the cambelt compartment? Rain, condensation? And why only in that very place (right over the cambelt position)? Or it is all over, are any other parts affected? And anyway the cambelt has a protective cover around itself, so it seems that is not enough...

Thanks, just wondering...

Your question is not silly, but very understandable!

Under the bonnet, when your face is to the car, on the left side of the engine there is the expansion vessel of the engine coolant liquid.
The lowest point of this vessel is exactly above the accessoiry belt and the timing belt.
When your car has, for example, a lot of snow on the windscreen, which is melting because the sun rises, this water can come under the bonnet and drip on that expansion vessel. As the lowest point is above the belts, water will drip onto them (and eventually freeze again, becoming an ice-clog - cf. my Citroën garage).
Also, heavy rain can make running over the plastic water collecting at the low end of the windscreen (specially when there is dirt in the holes left & right).
Anyway, dripping water makes the metal cords in the belts corroding, causing them to break too early.

* I had a snapped accessoiry belt on my 1st C8 @ 80.000km, shortly after the replacement of the pulley, where the belt wasn't replaced at the same time.
I could understand my garage why they didn't replace this acc. belt because it looked like new.
After the snap, just the place where it was broken, it was very good visible that the metal cords were corroded (but at that moment the pbl was not already recognized by PSA, so I was thinking the cause was the broken pulley).

* I had a snapped cam belt on my 2nd C8 @ 117.000km, and now my garage told me "oh yes indeed, at your car 'the water collecting tray' is not already placed"...... - on my 1st C8 there were a lot of recalls, but not 1 recall on the 2nd C8 although this could have been a perfect preventing recall on many, many EV2's as you can find back in various Peugeot / Citroën forums - there are numerous indications of snapped cam belts !!

The water collecting tray fixes with 2 clamps on the tubing coming from and going to the expansion vessel, and has it's streamout point to a point beside the belts.

Appearantly the water collecting tray also prevents dripping water on a place on the engine itself, preventing one or more injectors from corroding.

Pictures and the correct part number of this tray you can find at the end of this thread:
http://www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurova...tion-belt.html

On my new P807 HDi there is even a kind of water-collecting part above the cam belt, fixed directly on the engine block, with a transparant flexible water exhaust tubing straight to below the engine block, just above the road - which proves that the problem was very well known at PSA - I've studied the car regarding this item !! See attached Thumbnails.

[C8MarkCX25DTRTu]

Originally Posted by macscouse

To be on the safe side , change the belt before the warranty expires or as soon as possible after ... should cost @ £200 but better that £12000 ... right !!
Cheers,
Pete

Hi All

Have just registered although have been viewing for a while. I just wondered on this thread what people thought about the petrol engines. I have a diesel Xantia which is coming up for the second change at the moment so it is the current subject.
When do people think is the best time to change a cam belt on a petrol C8 2.2 16V? I have now done 52K miles at 5 Years and later this year will have an early 60K service but guess that doesn't have a cam belt.
Any help much appreciated
Thanks
Mark

[pizso]

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive answer.

1. I am still wondering about the described way of the incoming water, but I will check it visually. I hope that so I will understand the issue. Thanks again!

2. Pulley??? The acc pulley wich is driving the water pump, the generator through the acc belt?
How exactly was it "broken"? Just stopped "working" , desintegrating itself?? (As I know ther is some rubber parts inside it, which could go apart - this is it???)
How can it cause the snap of the cam belt WITHOUT breaking the protection cover of the cambelt?
Sorry, questions again... :-)))
Anyway, you scared me just enough... I just am reviewing my next week schedule due to this infos... :-))))

3. Yes, I am aware of that tray from the other thread.

4. Interesting pictures... There we can really see that there are developments at psa... :-))) When the ev2s will finally become really reliable cars, maybe the world will run out of fuel... Just joking..

Thanks a lot!

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by C8MarkCX25DTRTu

When do people think is the best time to change a cam belt on a petrol C8 2.2 16V? I have now done 52K miles at 5 Years and later this year will have an early 60K service but guess that doesn't have a cam belt.
Any help much appreciated
Thanks
Mark

No idea Mark - maybe there is not that much experience with petrol EV2 regarding this subject because the diesels are much more sold?

Originally Posted by pizso

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive answer.

1. I am still wondering about the described way of the incoming water, but I will check it visually. I hope that so I will understand the issue. Thanks again!
I don't really understand neither, because the plastic "eaves gutter" underneath the windscreen seems to be large enough to keep water away from the engine, but appearently not.... - HDi 110 & 130hp engines were/are used in so many other models and different cars, were they don't give the same amount of snapped cam belts as in EV2, so this must be an EV2 specific pbl, position of the engine under the bonnet.

2. Pulley??? The acc pulley wich is driving the water pump, the generator through the acc belt?
No not the water pump as this pump is driven by the cam belt.
How exactly was it "broken"? Just stopped "working" , desintegrating itself?? (As I know ther is some rubber parts inside it, which could go apart - this is it??? yes indeed - it was still there, but gave loud ticking noises - I had this pbl at my Ulysse I 2.0 jtd and 1st C8 - on the 2nd C8 this pulley was made in one piece)
How can it cause the snap of the cam belt WITHOUT breaking the protection cover of the cambelt?
Sorry, questions again... :-)))
No this is a misunderstanding: this pulley is driving the accessory belt (v-belt) and it was a snapped acc-belt on my 1st C8, not a snapped cam belt. I wrote that.
Anyway, you scared me just enough... I just am reviewing my next week schedule due to this infos... :-))))
Don't be scared - in our language (B, NL) we have an expression: "A notified person counts for two" .

3. Yes, I am aware of that tray from the other thread.

4. Interesting pictures... There we can really see that there are developments at psa... :-))) When the ev2s will finally become really reliable cars, maybe the world will run out of fuel... Just joking..
My neighbour is working at Volvo Ghent - he always tells me: "You should know, which huge number of corrections / improvements are made on a new Volvo model, and not only in the beginning, but during the complete life-cycle of a model !!"

Thanks a lot!

[lupo1972]

.. I wonder - I thought the recomended time to change is 120.000km or 5 Years (not 4) (My Ulysse was at the FIAT Service with 76.00km and 4 Years old and they did not change, so I wonder) ... does anyone know this for sure? Also what will the costs be I have to calculate for a 2.2 JTD?

[Peter1]

Originally Posted by lupo1972

.. I wonder - I thought the recomended time to change is 120.000km or 5 Years (not 4) (My Ulysse was at the FIAT Service with 76.00km and 4 Years old and they did not change, so I wonder) ... does anyone know this for sure? Also what will the costs be I have to calculate for a 2.2 JTD?

You are right - the Fiat service book speaks about 120k km or 5 years, whatever comes first.
The PSA service book however speaks about 160k km (or 10 years? - I can't verify anymore as the service book of my new 807 136hp speaks about 240k km or 10 years).

But because of the number of snapped cam belts on 2.0 HDi 110hp and 2.2 HDi 128hp engines, and the fact that most of the cars are already long out of their warranty period when this happens, this gives discussions with the dealers in many cases.

I just was very lucky last november '07 that my Cit. dealer made just pay me the belts, tensioner roller & work (300€ all in) and took the rest under warranty - but I've read already on forums that dealers can make difficulties when cars are much longer out of their warranty period, although in the mean time the pbl is very well known.....

What I would recommend you:

* order and place the water collecting try as soon as possible (25€ incl. will not kill you )
* absolutely don't wait longer than 100k km to replace your cam belt (ask prices at several dealers, if not Fiat then ask Peugeot or Citroën, that never harms)

Succes / Peter

[lupo1972]

Ok - just got confused about the translation - I found here:

Timing Belt - Zahnriemen
Cambelt - translated also Zahnriemen
accessory belt - ?

I would appreciate if someone could help me with the technical translation and with the interval to change:

Timing Belt
Cam Belt
Accesory Belt

For all 3 the German and technical translation/function and the time to change (Years or Km) and please also which of those belts need to get a plastic cover against the water .....

Thx!